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cpf is my money
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redbean



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: cpf is my money Reply with quote

so many amendments have been passed in parliament authorising the govt to do anything they want with the people's money in the cpf. these monies are the hard earned monies of the people, their own money. why is it that the people allowed the govt to dictate how and when the money will be returned to them? why is it that the people are so quiet when their hard earned money are legislated away, beyond their reach?

other than being the govt and being able to legislate laws, is there any sound basis or justification for the govt to keep the people's money at will? the claim that all these are done to protect the people and provide for old age is not a good reason to lock up the people's money. if such a basis is deemed good enough to justify the current cpf rulings to retain the people's money, then the same reasoning will be good enough to justify keeping the people's money to 100 years, 120 years, and the minimum sum can be increased to any amount that the govt claimed to be necessary.

technically, many people may not live to see or use their hard earned monies. or realistically, a certain percentage of the people will definitely die before touching their cpf monies
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redbean



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redbean said...
singaporeans used to be cash rich in their cpf savings. that was only a few years back. then some wise men had better ideas. all the historical data and charts showed that investment in stocks will in the long run outperformed the miserable interests from bank deposits. everyone was so sure of this sure win formula. and cpf rulings were liberalised. all the monies poured into stocks.

then came the financial crisis and the stockmarket crash. the bubble burst and all the cpf accounts also burst. money wiped away overnight.

the wise men got more cautious. still must find some secure investments with good returns and low risk. ha, unit trusts managed by professionals. unfortunately unit trusts also lost money.

what else is there. insurance, annuities, very safe. so all the old men who are deemed incapable of looking after their cpf monies are encouraged to buy annuities. cannot go wrong one. no third time unlucky. all the recommendations have been thoroughly thought through with statistics and historical evidences to back them up, just like investing in stocks and unit trusts.

can insurance companies go bust? what if one big one got into a mess with a staff like nick leeson? banks also went bust. whatever can happen will happen. mr murphy is always right.
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redbean



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everyone who is reading this and want his/her cpf money back, please just add a simple comment, 'cpf is our money. we want it back.'

no one has the right to keep our money and tell us when they are going to return to us and how much to return to us. we want our cpf money back when we reach 55.

no go to the minimum sum.
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Last edited by redbean on Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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redbean



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raising cpf withdrawal age

what has raising retirement age got to do with raising cpf withdrawal age? keeping the people gainfully employed is the job of the govt and good for the nation. raising retirement age means we can retain more workers in the pool and be less dependent on foreign workers. keeping the cpf money is a totally different thing.

the cpf money is the worker's money and there is an agreement between the govt and the people when this money is to be returned. by changing the rules and date for returning this money to the people is a breach of good faith and the written agreement provided in the cpf acts. amending the cpf acts does not reflect well on the sincerity of the govt. the people is beginning to lose their trust on the govt on this matter. the govt has no right to keep the people's money at their whims and fancy.

the thoughts of changing the cpf acts again, and the union thinking of championing this movement will see a repeat of the time when howe yoon choong tried to raise the withdrawal age. the repercussion is grave. if the govt and ntuc think it is wise to try it again, only time will tell whether the people will go along with it. the ntuc, at the higher level, will try to push it for its own reasons. union leaders will have to go along. but are they really sold on the idea or deep inside they are strongly against it? they have to carry the people and the union members with them. will their members go along? will the people go along. we will see how far this top down, shafting into the people's throat policy will go.

we will continue to hear that the ground is sweet and the people will support such policies. just wait for the straw that breaks the camel's back.
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redbean



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redbean said...
with all the new conditions attached to cpf withdrawals, the minimum sum, medisave and the raising of withdrawal age, are the malaysians with cpf affected? are they still allowed to take all their money at age 55?

or are singaporeans again getting a worst deal than foreigners on this?

November 11, 2005 9:51 AM
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redbean



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPF Medisave Required Amount to be raised to $38,500
‘SINGAPORE: From January next year, the Medisave Required Amount (MRA) in the Central Provident Fund (CPF) will be raised to S$38,500 from the current S$32,000.

The MRA refers to the amount that must be set aside in the Medisave Account, after the CPF Minimum Sum requirement has been met.

The CPF Board said those who have met the CPF Minimum Sum and have an MRA shortfall at the point of withdrawal have to make a top-up to the Medisave Account....’
This is the latest. Does anyone want to ask the CPF Board who gives them the authority to raise the minimum sum? Who does the Board think they are?
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redbean



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simply said by ‘First Step’

This blogger posted a very simple but very effective explanation of the state of affair in the CPF scheme and how CPF account holders could kiss their savings good bye. And I quote,

‘First Step:
December 22, 2012 at 5:41 pm (Quote)
First Step – Increase Medisave. Second Step – Increase Medical Fees. Third Step-Increase Medisave Again. Fourth Step - Increase Medical cost again. Fifth Step – the cycle repeats itself, forget about seeing your CPF money again. Can just dream about it. Vote PAP out this Ponggol BE.’
This simplified statement says it all. And it can be duplicated for cost of living. The higher the cost of living the more needs to be kept in the minimum sum account. When cost of living increases, raised minimum sum. Keep raising the cost of living, the minimum sum will keep going higher in sync. It is like throwing money into a bottomless pit, never to be filled, and never to be seen.
Can Sinkies ever save enough for their retirement needs, for their medical fees and retirement? It is no longer how much the Sinkies are saving but how much they would have to pay for the high medical fees that they are expected to pay, like a guillotine knife over their heads. And the rapid and unstoppable high cost of living, starting with properties and car prices, will ensure that the minimum sum will be up and up and up.
Unfortunately daft Sinkies could not see the bigger picture and still clamouring to put more money into the CPF, a black hole.
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redbean



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sobering realities

There is no free lunch and nothing comes free. The extremely high cost of govt, and the extremely high cost to keep the yodas’ salary in the millions when they don’t need them, when they have abundance of them, but not time, is the biggest flaw in the distribution of wealth in this Sin City. And where is the money coming from for all the big paychecks, for good work, bad work and for doing sweet nothing?

The sobering realities that Sinkies have not come to terms with, are not thinking or did not want to think about, is the high cost to maintain this govt and the coterie of elite in high places and collecting humongous paychecks. If the super talented elite could generate and create incomes for their paychecks and their gregarious appetite for millions, it would be another issue that is less worrisome. The problem is when they are not creating the revenue and income to pay themselves, then the money must come from the people in all kinds of ways and schemes.

Paying the yodas and elite at the kind of salary and perks and whatever, is like throwing money into a black hole, and the demand is for more and more. And the poor and average Sinkies, many still did not know, will be the ultimate paymasters to make the rich richer and themselves poorer.

The Sinkies must wish that the two sovereign funds make more profits. The constant and regular reports of the SWFs losing hundreds of millions or billions at every sour deal must not be greeted with joy and celebration. The losses will need to be patched up, and where is the most convenient source of income to do that? Sinkies must pray and pray that the SWFs are doing well and could generate enough profits for the yodas and elite. In that way, the poor Sinkies could be spared from coughing out more and not deplete whatever little savings they have squirreled away in the CPF.

This is the sobering truth. The poor Sinkies are subsidising and paying for the well being of the rich elite. Sinkies must not wish any local GLCs to make big profits as the source of revenue is likely from them. When the big landlords and public services or privatised public services are trumpeting their huge profits, they are profits made from the Sinkies, unless the profits are from overseas investments.

Be aware of this sobering truth. It is the hard truth Sinkies are paying for.
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redbean



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The biggest protest rally at Hong Lim
This Sat, 7 Jun, a massive rally is expected at Hong Lim to protest against the retention of the people’s life savings in the CPF. “Return My CPF” or "Return Our Money" is the war cry of many grandpas and grandmas and also from the young. For the grandpas and grandmas, they have not much left in their CPF but still money to them. For the young, the fear of a few hundred thousand dollars of their savings being retained by the scheme is sending shivers down their spines.
The CPF issue gained prominence after a young blogger blogged about it and is being sued by the Prime Minister for defamation for his allegation of mismanagement. Roy Ngerng, an otherwise nondescript health worker, is now in front page news in the social media. International media have also picked up the trails and are likely to be present in force this Saturday as well.
The furious effort of the people in pumping money into the pocket of Roy to pay for his legal fees and damages has taken everyone by surprise. The initial shock of facing a lawsuit from the island’s top defamation lawyer representing the Prime Minister must have put on a lot of stress on this young man. The surge of support by the masses has in a way alleviated his fear and renewed his confidence in his cause to tell the story of the CPF savings scheme.
More than $80,000 has been raised in 5 days through crowd funding and with more coming in. It is a cause that affects every citizen, young and old, and touches their hearts. They are going to turn up in full force this Saturday at Hong Lim.
Would other political and non govt organizations stand up to support this cause kickstarted by a young blogger inadvertently? The issue is not political and transcends all political parties and non political parties. Would they rally their supporters to support a young man championing the aspiration of the people to want their money back? Or would these organizations stay away as if it is none of their business?
Political parties in particular would strike out to the estates and walk the streets to ask the people for their support and votes during election campaigning. The people now need their support in this case. The people may not be knocking at the doors of the political parties. But they are expecting the political parties to come forward to support them. Political parties that failed to answer this call, thinking it is none of their business will have no reason to ask for the people’s support in the coming GE. This is a reciprocal act. It is also something that political parties have been shouting, to fight for the people’s interests. Now it is time for them to show that they are indeed fighting for the people and to come forward to stand, not behind the people, but with the people on this cause.
When the political parties called for support from the people, the people answered. The people are now calling, would the political parties answer or would they hide in their little corners and ignore the people?
Would there be a massive turnout this Saturday when the people are marching in front in the protest, leading the protest? Where are the political parties and the politicians? So far not a whimper is heard from them except for KJ Jeyaratnam who would be one of the speakers on Saturday. Would the political parties fail the people?
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redbean



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:26 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
CPF Protest Rally - Today is the Day

The CPF Rally is today, 4 pm at Hong Lim Park. Singaporeans who want to know more about what is happening to their CPF savings would be briefed by at least 7 speakers, including Tan Kin Lian, Leong Sze Hian, Vincent Wijesingha, KJ Jeyaretnam, Han Hui Hui, M Ravi and Roy Ngerng. Yahoo reported that Reform Party speaker would be Prabu Ramachandran. He may have replaced KJJ.

These speakers will be talking about the CPF from the people's point of view, like looking at a coin from the other side. The young Singaporeans and those reaching 55 must want to know what is going to happen to their money when they reach 55.

A big crowd is expected today, rain or shine.
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redbean



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The CPF is a good scheme if….
The CPF was a good scheme and can continue to be a good scheme with many people happily putting their life savings into it. What needs to be done is to modify the terms with more elements of options and choices and the removal of compulsion.
Let the original withdrawal age be at 55, or perhaps, this is a big retreat from its original position, to allow two withdrawal age, ie 55 and 60. The minimum sum schemes should be hanged or mothballed. There is no good reason to dictate that a person’s life savings should be retained against his wish even if by legislation. Where is the moral justification to mess around with other people’s money?
What the Govt can do is to provide a few options for the people to want to leave their life savings with the CPF after the withdrawal age. A 4% interest rate against a near zero bank interest rate would be very attractive for people who do not need the money urgently. And to make the scheme more attractive, those who left their money in the CPF after the withdrawal age should be allowed to make withdrawals any time if they so choose to. This will give confidence to people to keep their money in the CPF.
Not everyone will want to keep all their life savings in the CPF when they could withdraw them. But there will be a substantial number of people who would want to enjoy the higher interest rate or whatever attractive annuity schemes the CPF board could offer on a voluntary basis.
The Govt would have a much more happier group of people putting their money with the CPF as a matter of choice. There would be people who, no matter what, would not want to leave any money with the CPF. But when they can withdraw them at will, anytime, it makes sense for many to leave their money with the CPF. And there will be the odd balls that would squander their money away the very next day they took them out. These are social problems that the Govt would have to deal with and cannot be reasons to punish the whole population in a straight jacket policy. What kind of logic is that? Simple Simon?
Make the CPF an attractive scheme that the people would chose to keep their money by choice after the withdrawal age and be grateful to the Govt. The present schemes have started to smell and the rotting smell will only get worse and becomes unbearable. It is nearly there.
The Govt has a choice to do the right thing.
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redbean



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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The CPF issue took down a minister in 1984
In 1984, Howe Yoon Choong, then Minister of Health, produced a paper, Report of the Committee on the Problems of the Aged, with the main objective of delaying withdrawal of CPF savings from age 55 to 60. This created an up roar with the workers telling the trade unions they were strongly against it. The feedback was so negative that it led to his stepping down from politics.
Though the report was stating a demographic problem that was waiting to happen, it was wrong news at the wrong time. It is always never pleasant to be a messenger of bad news. Often the messenger got fried. Howe’s recommendation was a simple delay from age 55 to 60, but it was bad enough to bring down a serving minister for suggesting it.
Since then, several changes had taken place in the CPF scheme. Withdrawal age was pushed back to 60, 62, now 65 and may go higher. The withdrawal sum is no longer a lump sum but in the forms of drips and drapes, an annuity payable monthly. Then there are now two minimum sum schemes that are holding back a huge sum of the people’s savings, at current rate, about $198k with the Medisave included. In addition, the CPF members are compulsorily required to purchase CPF Life annuity insurance and an akan datang Medishield Life medical insurance.
Compare these changes to what Howe Yoon Choong had proposed the delay from 55 to 60 was nothing. How did the Govt managed to get so far without an uprising or an up roar like the time of Howe? Maybe the people did not protest. Maybe the trade unions did not protest. Maybe the protests were not fed back to the Govt. Maybe the Govt simply ignored the protests. Whatever, things seemed to have gone down well superficiality, or quietly. No protest meant the people agreed to the changes.
7 Jun told a different story. It was like all the problems and anger were bottled up and just exploded. The can of worms was ripped apart and no one can close it anymore. The issues and unhappiness are in the open. No complaints, no protest, no demonstration? What is real?
Is the anger is real? If the misgivings and unhappiness are real, would this CPF thing bring down another minister? Or would it bring down instead a Prime Minister? I think not. I think it could be worse. Everything that is wrong with the CPF has come together as one big problem and is blowing up at one go.
Please feel free to disagree. I know, many would think this assessment is an over exaggeration of a small problem or no problem. Don’t make a molehill out of a mountain. Oops, don’t make a mountain out of a molehill. It will fizzle off and nothing more would be heard of it. Life will return to normal. And the minimum sums will just keep piling up as planned.
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redbean



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The desperate cries of a pathetic 76 year old aunty

Hri Kumar did not bargain for it. He did not invite non constituent residents to his honest conversation on the CPF. But his resident, a 76 year old aunty, was there with a plate of genuine misgivings. At 76 year old, she belongs to the generation that should have withdrawn all her CPF savings when she reached 55 and has nothing more to do with the CPF. I think she chose to leave some savings in the CPF for safe keeping. She did not know that once left inside the CPF, her savings would be subject to the changes in CPF rulings, and now her money is treated just like other younger CPF members, locked up and cannot be withdrawn unlike the old terms. She did not bargain for it. CPF is the safest place on earth to keep her money. She trusted the govt with her money. And CPF did not fail her. Her money is very safe with the CPF but can only be withdrawn subject to CPF’s rules and regulations.

Hri Kumar did not bargain for her presence and her untold story of pain and struggle to get her money back from the CPF. She even revealed that her money in a local bank was withdrawn without her consent, to pay her property tax to the Inland Revenue. People are now questioning whether a bank has the right to take money from the depositors without the depositor’s consent and hand it to another govt agency.

The plight of this aunty is unusual and should not happen at all. Why must she be subject to the new CPF regulations? When she opted to leave her savings in the CPF, did the CPF explain to her that the money will be affected by new regulations? Or when new regulations came into force, did the CPF give her a chance to withdraw her money before it comes into effect, or it was too troublesome to do so? This is the same as the arbitrary transfer of money from the OA to the RA when a CPF member reaches 55. And the CPF did not bother to inform the members that once the money is transferred to the RA it cannot be used to pay for HDB mortgages. Should not the CPF inform the members as this is a major policy change and affects the finances of its members? Many members were caught by this unpleasant surprise and ended up having to fork out cash when they had more than enough money in the CPF to service their mortgages.

Why did the CPF think it not necessary to inform the members of such policy change? And why were there no CPF officers present in the conversation to answer any technical or specific question concerning CPF policies and regulations? This is a public conversation conducted by the govt or MP to answer the questions of the people. And the aunty rightly asked and expected CPF officers to be there to give her answers to her queries.

A public conversation is unlike a private conversation among friends. Many people have had many frank and honest conversations with their friends and did not need the presence of some authoritative figures around. They knew that their conversations were just talking cock sessions with no requirements to solve any issues or problems. Yes they were talk cock and sing song sessions. But the public and honest conversation on the CPF, organised by an MP, cannot just be a talk cock sessions, oops, my apologies, cannot be just a mere conversation. It was a serious conversation and if there were problems that needed to be ironed out, they must be done. And if there were questions to be answered, it would be best for CPF officers to be present to answer them. It is unfair to expect a MP to know the details of CPF policies even if he is a super talent that is supposed to know everything.

Would this 76 year old aunty get her CPF money back when the money should have been returned to her when she hit 55? It is so sad to see a dignified ex school teacher begging the Govt to return her life savings in the CPF. Can you believe that?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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CPF – All the right reasons to keep your money safe and sound
The withdrawal age needs to be raised and more money needs to be kept in the minimum sums of RA and Medisave Accounts. Without raising the withdrawal age, without raising the minimum sums, the lives of the CPF members will be adversely affected, maybe cannot retire, no money for medical bills.
Let’s revisit the right reasonings for these good policy changes.
1. People are going to live longer. Many people will live till 80, 90 or older. So they must have more money in their retirement savings. Any statistic to show how many will live to 80 and above and how many will not live to 60 or 65?
2. Inflation will destroy the value of their savings. So the amount to be saved must be regularly adjusted and pegged to inflation rate. This reasoning very good. If inflation every year goes up by 10%, the amount to be kept in the minimum sum must go up accordingly. Nevermind if the salary is inflation adjusted.
3. The people need $120k in their retirement account, excluding their Medisave Account, can’t remember which year this $120k was based on, to be able to live a comfortable retirement life. I dunno how they got this amount, I only eat porridge and pickled vegetables. And I don’t go holidays, I don’t go to theatres, I don’t go to foodcourts or restaurants, I just stay at home and do nothing by the time I hit 70, if I am that lucky. I think I don’t need so much money to live on.
4. This one very important, some will squander their retirement money away on women, wine and songs, and the casinos. I think this one not applicable to me. I am vegetarian and living like a monk.
5. People after 55 years are incapable of looking after their own money, irresponsible and will either spend and spend, or will be cheated of their money. Really?
6. If these people squandered their savings, no one will be there to help them. Don’t expect the Govt to be there, don’t expect their children or family to provide the financial support. I believe my children and grandchildren will abandon me on the streets. And I can depend on my blogger friends to buy me kopi.
7. Putting the money in the CPF is the safest place on earth. Money will not run away. I got no money to live now, where got money to put in the CPF?
8. Interest rate also very high. Higher than inflation?
9. And it is all done for your own good. What good can it be if cannot touch the money?

What do you think? I have added some comments based on my own situation and needs. Not sure how applicable are these right reasonings to you people.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A glaring misgiving that was conveniently ignored and forgotten

A controversial honest discussion on the CPF had a troubled beginning when Roy Ngerng, Kenneth Jeyaretnam and a few others invited themselves to the party only to be disinvited. Kenneth somehow still managed to gatecrash the party only to create more controversies arising from his 8 point remarks on Hri Kumar’s ‘dishonest’ honest public conversation. And Hri Kumar returned the compliments by making his own statements on what he did not say as what Kenneth said he said. Now there is an ongoing big ding dong battle between the two key contestants of the honest conversation.

The prelude to this battle was a woman with an amazing cheongsam that was videoed while making some rude remarks on a 76 year old aunty making a desperate cry for the return of her CPF money. The whole social media was on fire with netizens throwing nasty things at the cheongsam woman who was revealed as a PAP grassroot leader by the name of Jean Ang. Netizens had a field day digging out everything they could find on Jean Ang and calling her all kinds of unpleasant names. And before the furore died out, the woman who took the video of the cheongsam woman that went viral was knocked down by a car and landed in hospital. More rumours appeared about how this accident could be linked to the video. In the meantime nothing was reported in the main media despite the uproar in the net.

What was depressing is that the poor 76 year old aunty was totally forgotten. Netizens were angry with the cheongsam woman for her rude gestures. Hri Kumar and Kenneth were crossing swords with each other over who said what. No one seems to bother about the reason for the desperate plea of the aunty. She was inconsequential. There are more important issues and scores to settle.

Rene Yap’s problem was that her money was locked up in her CPF account. Under all circumstances, anyone of her age should not have any more entanglements with the CPF. She should have withdrawn all her money from the CPF and ended her relationship there and then. Her fault was to choose to leave some of her money in the CPF to earn higher interest. Her fault was not knowing that once the money was left in the CPF, it would be subject to all the new regulations rolled out by the CPF. She cried in vain for the return of her money. Hri Kumar’s best reply to her was that she knew the law and regulations and that’s it. Her money will stay where it is and nothing else can be done. And no one in the govt, so far, has said anything about her case and it seems that there is nothing else she could do or no one would be doing anything. Is there anyone listening to her plight? Or she only has herself to blame as the law is the law?

Where is the empathy, where is the kindness, where is the compassion for an old lady caught by the hard side of the law? Is there anyone listening? Or everyone is deaf? Does anyone feel that something could be done for her? Does anyone walking the corridors of power think she deserves some assistance? Or is it a case of how much does she wants, $500, $5,000 or to return her everything in the CPF? Is there merit to her grievance?

Rene Yap is not alone. There could be many in the same situation as her. They are an anomaly in the system, or in a system that took them for granted, and this should be rectified to let them live in peace in their golden years. Why made them live in misery and anger for the want of their money back?

Is Rene Yap’s grievance important at all?
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what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree.
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