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cpf is my money
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Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 13465
Location: singapore

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPF - Watch it very carefully

Below is an abridged article by Phillip Ang posted in TRE that explained clearly what the Enhanced Nomination Scheme is all about. Be very careful that you want your nominee to receive your life savings in their CPF account and not in cash. When it is deposited in their CPF account, it will be subject to all the restrictive rules of withdrawal by CPF, ie it will be stuck for good like why you are unable to withdraw your CPF now. To me it is NOT and enhanced scheme.

Why is PAP still trying to scam CPF members?
June 15th, 2017

....A few years ago, CPF Board (CPFB) introduced the Enhanced Nomination Scheme (ENS) without any debate in Parliament, zero public input/feedback and no media announcement. The ENS allows a CPF nominee to receive CPF savings in their CPF accounts. Members are required to contact CPFB for details of the suspicious scheme.
The ENS is described in ONE SENTENCE on CPF website:

Some inconvenient questions for CPFB:
Why didn’t CPFB consult CPF members before the introduction of this scheme?
Why didn’t CPFB publish all material information on its website?
Why did CPFB introduce a scheme which defies logic and common sense?
I have checked with CPFB and what I found out should worry CPF members.
I’ll use the example of a CPF member with a $218,000 bequest to his nominee. Under this make-no-sense scheme, members are given 2 ‘options’ for the transfer:
1 – Top up Medisave Account (MA) limit followed by topping up Special Account (SA) limit with balance going into Ordinary Account (OA) or
2 – Top up SA limit followed by topping up MA limit with balance going into OA.
Under the ENS, MA and SA must be topped up to current limits of $52,000 and $166,000 respectively!

Hmm ....Clearly, the scheme was introduced to trap more CPF for GIC to speculate in risky foreign assets.
CPF members would have preferred all monies to go into the nominee’s OA which could at least be used to finance housing or education.
If the nominee is a 15-year old child under ‘option’ 2, the money will be trapped in the SA till he reaches 65, ie for 50 years! At the stroke of a pen, PAP hopes to trap our CPF for another 2 generations.
Why would any CPF member plan for the nominee’s retirement which could be 5 to 6 decades down the road?
This is a clear case of PAP trying to scam CPF members and it doesn’t help with elected MPs playing deaf and dumb in Parliament, WP MPs included.
Readers should share the information and be very wary of CPF Board. Do not anyhow assume your CPF will be, logically, transferred to the nominee’s OA. Once the transaction has been effected, your nominees will surely cry no tears as it will be impossible to be reversed. Can you imagine $200,000 trapped for 5 to 6 decades at GIC’s disposal?
Is GIC in such urgent need of funds that PAP has to resort to introducing a scheme to scam CPF members?

Phillip Ang
* The author blogs at LikeDatOsoCanMeh.
what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree.
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Location: singapore

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Govt debunks a sms message on CPF nomination
SINGAPORE: When Central Provident Fund (CPF) members pass away, their savings will be given to their nominees in cash - and not transferred to their Medisave account as claimed in a message making the rounds on social media.

"There is absolutely no basis to this rumour," stated a post on the Singapore Government website on Saturday (Jun 17), debunking the message circulating on WhatsApp, SMS and social media.

"The truth is, by default, your nominees will receive your CPF savings in cash when you pass away. This is unless you have opted for a different type of CPF nomination," it said.

The above govt statement is to debunk a sms message going around saying that in the event of death, all CPF money would be paid to the nominee's Medisave Account. This sms message is not true or inaccurate. But what Phillip Ang wrote about the ENS scheme is true. Read the govt statement above,

"The truth is, by default, your nominees will receive your CPF savings in cash when you pass away. This is unless you have opted for a different type of CPF nomination," it said."

What is this different type of CPF nomination? The govt statement did not elaborate and stopped there. This different type of CPF nomination is the ENS or Enhanced Nomination Scheme that Phillip Ang was talking about in his post that I quoted in this blog on Saturday.

What Phillip Ang is warning about is this ENS scheme. Make sure this is what you want for your nominee when you opted for this ENS scheme. Your CPF savings will go to your nominee's CPF account and not paid out in cash if you opted for the ENS.
what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPF – Phillip Ang carrying the touch

Thanks to Phillip Ang for his persistence in keeping the CPF money issue alive and current. Just keep talking about this subject less some donkey would say 'see, no one is talking about it anymore', so they have accepted their fait accompli about the CPF no longer their money and would not care what would happen to their CPF money anymore.

Here is a quote from 'bapak' in a comment in Philip Ang's post in the TRE.

September 9, 2017 at 11:51 pm (Quote)
And now they upped the brainwatching by advertising on MiddleCorpse a son telling his daughters he is topping up his father’s account as token for bringing him up. Whoever fucking stupid ones will do that. Got money give your aging parents CASH. Why need to topup their accounts?

How many people have read this or know about the foolishness of topping up the CPF of their parents when they should be giving them cash to spend as and when they like? Once the money is in the CPF, you lose control of that money and using it is subject to all the rules of the CPF and could mean tan ku ku.

How many people understand the meaning of putting more money into their CPF or topping the CPF accounts of their parents and did not know the consequences?

I have been told that there is another change to the CPF Medisave Fund. When the owner dies, the money would not be allowed to be taken out despite the owner choosing to pass all the money to the beneficiary in cash. The money in the Medisave will be transferred to the Medisave of the beneficiary, forever retain in the CPF. See how desperate they are to take your money.

A caveat, I need to confirm this change if it is true and if it is retrospective or only affect new CPF members. Phillip Ang and all of you reading this, please check up on this. I will be writing to the CPF to confirm on this change.

This is really frightening and disgusting. I hope it is not true. And Leong Sze Hian has recently reported that if you don't do anything after they sent you a letter at age 65, your piecemeal withdrawal for retirement will be deferred to 70 years old!

And no announcement again in the media.

Has this got to do with blocking Cheng Bock from the presidency? Money not enough?
what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Class action suit against the Govt on CPF savings
Philip Ang is proposing a class action suit against the Govt on accountability, transparency and the return of our CPF savings at 55. Below is his proposal posted in the TRE. I will definitely support this motion if it is finalized. Maybe Gilbert Goh should work with Philip Ang to hold a mass briefing at Hong Lim and collect signatures of CPF holders in support of this class action. Other forms of acceptance should be work out to make it easy for the rest of the CPF holders to accept this proposal, including house to house visit. The opposition parties could be roped in to help in this cause that affects the pocket of all Singaporeans.
While on this, the proposal should strictly be about Singaporeans and not about PRs and ‘locals’. Let them fight their own battles after all they could easily withdraw every cent they want when they decided to return to their home countries.
A class-action lawsuit against the government.
This will not be a mere request or begging the government for transparency and accountability in the management of hundreds of billions in CPF monies. CPF members will demand for a full set of accounts to be published.
On the assumption that GIC’s 6% rate of return claims are factual, we seek the return of the difference between the amount paid to CPF members and what GIC claims to have earned. Plus interest.
We also seek the return of our CPF savings at 55. Returning our CPF through monthly installments at 65 – till we die – is not acceptable.
Neither will we accept:
– Frequent tweaks of CPF rules which have impacted the well-being of hundreds of thousands of retirees.
– The appointment of unqualified CEOs such as former military personnel/civil servant with no prior fund management experience.
We are also opposed to government abuse of our retirement savings to:
– Conceal the size of our national reserves.
– Channel tens of billions to a single fund manager, government-linked GIC.
We seek a revamp of the failed CPF scheme which should be simplified. To increase retirement funding, a higher percentage of wages should be allocated to CPF SA with a corresponding reduction in CPF OA allocation.
The limits to the use of CPF MA – arbitrarily implemented by the government – for hospitalization, insurance premiums, etc must be removed. After all, this is our money.
The government should also appoint other non government-related fund managers to manage our CPF savings.
Besides the above, other factors will also be taken into consideration after CPF members have confirmed their support for the class-action lawsuit.
The lawsuit will be funded by CPF members through crowdfunding. Depending on the number of CPF members involved, the cost should not be prohibitive, eg 10,000 members X $100 = $1 million or 100,000 members X $10 = $1 million.
Transparency and accountability are of utmost importance and details could be worked out at a later date.
what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPF – Do you want your money back?

An unending scheme that was meant to end at 55
A great saving scheme for retirement has now been turned into a nightmare for many hapless Singaporeans. They entered this compulsory scheme with the promise of getting their life savings back at 55. Without their permission and consent, many outrageous legislations have been introduced to hold back their money till eternity without having a say or a chance to say no or to opt out from it by the most honorable govt run by the most righteous and honorable men and women elected by the people to look after their interests and to protect their interests.
In the case of the CPF, many do not see their interests being protected but eroded by the very people they elected to protect them. Many want their life savings back but their voices were drown in the wilderness. Their elected representatives refused to hear them or to represent them. Instead their elected representatives participated in the horrendous schemes to hold back the money from them at 55. Now this scheme, instead of terminating at the age of 55, would only end when they die. Oops, not really the case. In some circumstances the scheme or the money would continue to be locked up in the CPF, transferred into the accounts of their beneficiaries and could go on and on, never ending.
What kind of monstrous scheme has this life saving scheme for retirement turned into? You ask me. Do you want it to be this way, without your consent, to becoming a money eating monster that eats away your life savings? Compulsory purchase of life insurance scheme, compulsory purchase of medical insurance scheme, and aka datang, or brooding, compulsory schemes for the seniors.
Take the case of the money that is to be pledged against the CPF you withdrawn, your own money, to purchase properties. Not only that you have to pay interest for borrowing your money, you would have to cough up more money to return to the CPF even if you are 100 or 200 years old or more if you have not met the minimum sum stipulated. Should not such pledges be terminated once a person reached the age to withdraw his CPF savings? There is no provision to end the pledging scheme. By right one’s obligation to contribute to the CPF should end at 55 and everything squares of as that is the age when one should be withdrawing his savings from the CPF. But now, when you sell your property, you must pay back to the CPF the money you borrowed from your own savings, plus interests, with no time frame in sight, with the conditions set for the minimum sum. Why like that?
What kind of fucking nonsense is this? Return our money. We want our money back.
Lim Tean and Philip Ang are risking themselves to fight for you, on your behalf to take back your money. The hope for success is very small, because the people you elected to protect your money would not be protecting you and your money but fighting against this. But don’t give up hope. This is your only chance to take back your money.
We must all do our part. This is what Philip Ang and Lim Tean expects from you, a small contribution to the huge legal fees that would be needed to fight this case legally. The details are a work in progress. Everything must start with a small step, a first step. Philip Ang wrote this, posted in TRE,
‘CPF members (non members are also welcomed) who wish to right this sorry state of affairs should contribute and no freeloading, please. Even if 20% of members contribute $10 each, this will be more than sufficient.
Our present priority is to create more awareness and raise sufficient funds before initiating action.
Lim Tean and I have set up a crowdfunding account @ (POSB Savings 198-91842-3) Please keep a record of your transaction as your particulars will be required before the launch of the class-action suit. Unused portion will also be returned, pari passu.’

This is the time to act to do something good for yourself. You need to act to protect your own money. Whatever the amount you can contribute, just send it to them in the above account provided.
This is the first time that Singaporeans are standing up for their own right, fighting for the right to their money, their life savings. Every drop counts. Do something to help yourself. Do it now.
PS. I have sent in my contribution by the time you read this.
what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPF - It's now or never

The proposal of a class act to sue the govt on the CPF money by Lim Tean/Phillip Ang and their team is a once or never event. Never has such a task been taken up by a group of professionals for the people, to protect the people's money from disappearing without their consent, to return them to their rightful owners at the rightful time that the scheme was meant to be.

Lim Tean and Phillip Ang are asking just for $10 or $20 from each CPF account owners to build up a war chest to pay for the expensive legal fees to fight this case. Many are still hesitating, some even bo chap. Think about it, for $10/$20, what do you get? Lim Tean/Phillip Ang would have to gather a team of legal experts to study the case and to make a legal case to sue the govt. A lot of people, money and time will be involved to make this possible for a miserable $10/$20. That is about the cost of a pack of cigarette or a lunch.

And more, Lim Tean/Phillip Ang and their team would be putting their necks on the chopping block, risking their career and reputation, and many things at stake. It is not so simple as just fighting a legal case but with many political considerations and consequences. Some are still hiding behind the kiasi label and not willing to contribute the $10/$20 when the stake is so high for this commando team.

Now, where is Tan Cheng Bock, Tan Jee Say and Tan Kin Lian on this issue? And where are the political parties claiming to want to represent the people in Parliament? Would they stand up and join Lim Tean and Phillip Ang in this fight for the people? If they don't, they might as well pack up their bags and leave politics altogether. Do not stand for any election be it just as an MP or the EP if they cannot see it important enough to stand up and fight together with Lim Tean and Phillip Ang. They need to put down their differences and other agendas to close rank for once, to represent the interest of the people, to protect the interest of the people, to protect their life savings.

Where are you, aspiring politicians? Where are you Singaporeans, ever complaining that always talks only and no actions when there is now a group of dare devils brave enough to stand up to fight for you?

The team is not asking for that special peanut but $10/$20 which should be reasonably affordable. They are not asking for a drum stick or a whole chicken. It's now or never. If you fail this team, no one would be there to fight for you anymore when you needed help.

This is your chance to say yes and to do your little part to make this happen. Here is the POSB Savings 198-91842-3 of Lim Tean to deposit your contribution. This is not a donation, this is a contribution to fund the legal suit to get back your CPF money.
what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPF - Return to basic principles

The CPF scheme was and is a retirement scheme to provide some income for the retirees when they have reached their retirement age. They should then be living off their savings in their golden years. The original CPF scheme ends at 55 when all obligations came to an end when a person retires, take out his nest egg of a life time savings to decide how he is going to use his money. This is what a retirement savings scheme should be.

With longer life expectancy, perhaps it is logical and reasonable to extend the retirement age to 65 and the CPF scheme ending at 65. Under a normal retirement scheme like the original CPF scheme, a person should have enough savings to live the rest of his life of another 15 or 20 years. Under such a situation, the relationship with the CPF in terms of more contribution to the scheme should end. No one should need to contribute further into the CPF scheme as life after 65 can be terminated any moment.

A person should be allowed to withdraw every cent he has in the CPF. No such nonsensical things like minimum sum this and that, no such nonsense as pledging half of his assets to the CPF forever till his death.

However, the CPF scheme should offer to the people options to buy annuities or whatever medical insurance if they wanted to, strictly on a voluntary basis. Anyone can still voluntarily choose to contribute and save more if so desire with the CPF offering them more attractive terms. The important point here, the key principle, is voluntary. No one shall be compelled by legislation to continue to be stuck in the CPF scheme under whatever farcical schemes without their consent after the retirement age say at 65. Period..

A retirement scheme is to provide the savers an opportunity to retire comfortably and financially to live through his golden years. A retirement scheme is not to hold on to his money forever, after his death with many leftover to spare. There would be exceptions when some people may outlive their savings by living to the 90s and 100s. These are rarity. And one must not forget that the CPF is only one source of income to provide for the retirees. Many have other forms of support from families and relatives and other sources of income. The CPF is not the only source of financial security. At the very worst case, there would be a few that the state can pick up the tap. Why not, after living off the cheap loans from the savings of the members over a life time, it is only fair and equitable and ethical that the govt provide this last safety net.

The current CPF has been turned into a little monster when the people contributing to the scheme are held at ransom while others are feeding on the scheme like parasites, depriving the real owners from access to their money. And some happily think this is their money and not the savers money and suka suka would think of ways to take away this money from the real owners by legislation. This is unethical, immoral, and dishonourable. Only very mean people can go on living on the people's life savings as if it is money there up for grabs, with no owners. Anyone who claims that the CPF savings is not the owner’s money has very little conscience of justice and fairness. Anyone going along with this kind of devious thing is just as guilty.

The CPF scheme must have a termination date when all obligations to save would come to an end and anything more should be voluntary. Legally all money saved must be returned to their rightful owners to enjoy their hard earned money saved over a life time. Tentatively under the present life expectancy, a good ending point is age 65 plus or minus a couple of years and nothing more.

People should not disguise themselves as angels to control and keep the money from the CPF members for as long as they want while dipping into the fund for their own benefits.
what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree.
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